Thursday, December 4, 2014

No School For You!

 Crowd of students gather ARHS front entry  12:10 PM
Adult bystanders in front of school

Encouraged by a handful of adult bystanders and more than a few members of the media, hundreds and hundreds of Amherst Regional High School students walked out of school just after noon today to protest the #Ferguson non-indictment of a police officer who used deadly force in self defense.

video


After 4.5 minutes of silence the crowd, lead by a student with a bullhorn, headed toward town center chanting as they went.

 APD briefly blocks town center to enable crowd to cross

video

The crowd snaked its way down Lessey Street and up Main Street to town center where the Amherst Police Department swooped in to block traffic for the few minutes it took to amble across the main intersection enroute to the Jones Library.

Originally a dozen students signed a statement advertising the walkout, but that was amplified prominently in this morning's Daily Hampshire Gazette, encouraging a huge response.

And, of course, the weather was hospitable. 

Event promoted on Facebook, but not all that many confirmed "going"

Not to be left out even the Middle School got involved
Click to enlarge/read

93 comments:

Anonymous said...

How about:

"I am going to get an "A" on this test and dedicate my work to the memory of Michael Brown"???

Anonymous said...

I'm glad to see that our teenagers can behave more maturely and can organize more effectively than the "Justice For Carolyn" crew.

Why did members of "Justice For Carolyn" show up to the high school and the walk out? No one invited the parents. The students specifically stated that they were not in any way affiliated with "Justice For Carolyn" and this was a student protest not a community protest.

prufrock said...

This was planned yesterday, with quite a bit going around last night, including a robo call from the high school.

Apparently students met with Mark Jackson about it yesterday and agreement was struck whereby students who had permission letters from their parents could join the protest without penalty.

Anonymous said...

A lone school official, that no one invited, encouraging the students who are taking part in a small, well organized act of civil and peaceful disobedience, to behave in a non-peaceful manner:

http://imgick.masslive.com/home/mass-media/pgmain/img/republican/photo/2014/12/04/-e8fd70cb4489bfcb.JPG

Look at me! Look at me! I'll stand higher than everyone else so they'll be sure to take my picture!

Paula Barrows said...

I am more than proud of these students. They showed both courage and restraint. My daughter is the youngest of three and the third to be involved with social justice issues. And, as a side note alumni were welcome to attend. Larry, you got my daughter in one of your still shots and in your video. Thanks

Anonymous said...

What a bunch of idiots. Do some research for God's sake. Maybe read something for once and stop basing your actions on what you see on social media or mob mentality.

It's tragic that someone lost their son, brother, etc., but there is no injustice here. Don't want to get shot? Then don't attack a police officer.

If a Grand Jury can't even come up with a probable cause finding, or in other words the mere belief that a crime was committed, where is the injustice.

I guarantee you that if you ask most of the protestors 'what are you protesting?' they'll likely give you a 'for Mike Brown' or 'justice' or 'black lives matter' answer. These people are clearly uneducated or misinformed about what has happened.

I feel bad for both families; the Brown's and the Wilson's. But cut the crap with this protesting when you have no clue what you're talking about bit.

Anonymous said...

Yes. Black lives matter so much that there were over 2000 killings of blacks by orher blacks this year alone. Compare that to 193 killings of blacks by whites and about 400 killings of whites by blacks.

Anonymous said...

Black lives do matter. Except for abortions. If black babies were allowed to live, the black population would now be at about 33 percent instead of 15.

Anonymous said...

Please tell me the protesters didn't hold their hands up in the air propagating the lie that Brown did that. The jury found no evidence that he in any way tried to surrender. Quite the opposite. Police brutality indeed.

Anonymous said...

Wilson should have just rolled on by the boys who were jaywalking that morning.

Paula Barrows said...

Do you feel the same way about the Eric Garner case? Just curious.

Anonymous said...

I guarantee you that if you ask most of the protestors 'what are you protesting?' they'll likely give you a 'for Mike Brown' or 'justice' or 'black lives matter' answer. These people are clearly uneducated or misinformed about what has happened.

Many of our kids are smarter than you think and clearly are a lot smarter and more articulate than you (and not so cowardly and uncertain about their stance that they have to be Anonymous like you and me.)

The organization and the maturity and civil and orderly behavior the students displayed was impressive. The grown-up protesters in this town can't even attend adult meetings without hissing and booing and laughing and interrupting speakers with name-calling. And nobody was making it about themselves like some of the adults do either.

Anonymous said...

Mark Jackson should be fired for supporting this.

Anonymous said...

Doesn't Shabazz have a job he's supposed to be at rather than joining a high school walk-out?

Anonymous said...

Practices must have been lonely today, if the AD did his job.

Anonymous said...

They should have been protesting the Eric Garnet non indictment. That is the egregious error. Not the Brown case.

Anonymous said...

Wilson should have just rolled on by the boys who were jaywalking that morning.

When a cop tells you to move, you move! There's nothing more anyone needs to know!

Nina Koch said...

To 3:14 pm --

I am not sure what leads you to believe that the students haven't done any research on this. Maybe they just read different sources of information than you read. It certainly doesn't make them idiots. It means they see things differently. We have great students at ARHS and I too am proud of them for how they managed this event.

We don't have a video of the exchange between Brown and Wilson in Ferguson, but we do have a video of the death of Garner on Staten Island. I would be fascinated to hear how you manage to spin that one. Do you really want to argue that Eric Garner's killing was somehow justified? The medical examiner ruled it a homicide. Perhaps you feel you know more than the medical examiner.

Selling untaxed cigarettes is not an offense punishable by death.

Anonymous said...

Nina, there may not be video of the Brown indecent, but the forensic evidence clearly shows he was not shot with his hands up, nor in his back, and it takes validity out of any protest to perpetuate this myth. If they are going to call the actual witnesses racist, please explain how that is since most were non white.

Anonymous said...

Why are so many hating on our students? Be peaceful, be thoughtful, be a role model. Be like them.

Anonymous said...

A lone school official, that no one invited...

My kid said that all the students were rolling their eyes and laughing at Shabazz who stood on a car at the library, they all thought he was trying to make it about himself. My daughter said "what a jerk, this was OUR time." Shabazz and the town's other jobless protesters became a subject of resentful discussion among the students. When they got to the Jones library to have a discussion in the meeting room downstairs, Shabazz (and Trevor Baptiste) were not allowed by the students to attend or sit in, he and the other Justice for Carolyn people who went were asked to leave, doors closed, not invited to the conversation the kids had. Even the teenagers can see through their narcissistic crap.

Why else would Shabazz be the only person out of hundreds, almost entirely teenagers, to stand on a car with a sign when the Gazette and Masslive were there with their cameras? What a fool.

Walter Graff said...

Eric Garner died from underlying conditions of being morbidly obese and having numerous medical issues. In fact he died after the confrontation by police, NOT on the scene nor because of it.

Instead of listening to the police and getting down during is arrest for BREAKING THE LAW he resisted (as is seen on the video) and the police did what was needed to get this huge man down in order to cuff and arrest him. Choke holds are not legal in NYC but are legal in such circumstances or resisting in NY State and still taught by the academy.

Unfortunately Garner died after the incident due to his numerous medical issues. Seems his many prior arrests (more than 30) taught him nothing about breaking the law nor about listening to police during an arrest. That day Garner was already out on bail after being charged with illegally selling cigarettes, driving without a license, marijuana possession and false impersonation

If people would learn to respect the commands of a police officer during an arrest or when being detained, we wouldn't have people getting shot nor might people die from underlying illness after trying to resist and ignoring a police officers demands.

And remember Garner did not die at the hands of the police officers (all doing their job as a black Sargent supervised on the scene). He died from a heart attack in an ambulance on it's way to the hospital.

Remember that in order to find Officer Pantaleo criminally negligent, the grand jury would have had to determine that he knew there was a "substantial risk" that Garner would have died due to the take down. There was no such thing and hence we have the verdict. It took the grand jury over two months to hear testimony and evidence before their finding. The grand jury began hearing the case on Sept. 29.

If Eric Garner did not resist arrest, the outcome of this case would have been very different. He wouldn't be dead today.

White, black or blue the police would have dealt with a resister in the same fashion.

It's a sad loss. If only he listened to the arresting officers and got down on the ground.





Anonymous said...

The students made a special point of saying on their facebook page that they do not affiliate themselves with the Justice For Carolyn protesters. The adults who crashed the students' event were trying to make it look like they were facilitators or organizers of the event. They were not. This successful, peaceful, mature demonstration and discussion, organized and carried out by our teenagers, should be a lesson to the immature, non-peaceful, disorganized "grown-ups" in our community.

Anonymous said...

I notice that you are also anonymous. You criticizing the last anon is hypocritical is it not? Also this: note how someone always says it's time to have a discussion about race. We don't want to discuss anything we want to scream and yell at each other and accuse each other of being racist.

Anonymous said...

Like you, I don't know all the facts. The grand jury saw the same video you and I did. They probably watched it 50 times. They may even know what happened before the man started shooting the video. Do you know what happened before the camera was turned on? The system of justice in America is the best in the world. That doesn't mean it's perfect. But there were a lot of people on the jury including many blanks, and they went over the evidence. Most of us just saw the video. Is that all there was to it? I don't presume to know everything about this case.

Anonymous said...

Garner probably didn't deserve to die no. It was a homicide yes a murder no.i'm just not sure why we always seem to side with the lawless.

Anonymous said...

Nina, let's be accurate and truthful, he is not dead because he was selling cigarettes. He is dead because he resisted a lawful arrest. Unfortunately, accidents happen, surely you don't think the officer intended to kill him... do you?.

Had he complied, he would be alive and well and no doubt back out on the street.

Like it or not, when an officer places you under arrest, you are bound by constitutionally upheld law to comply. If you choose to physically resist, you do so knowing that the officer must complete his duty by subduing you. Richard Marsh

Anonymous said...

There we go again. Anyone who disagrees with us we label a hater. Thanks a lot.

Anonymous said...

I agree wholeheartedly with Anon 3:27. Black lives do matter but apparently not to other blacks. They're killing each other at an ungodly rate far worse than the rate at which either whites or blacks kill members of the other race.

Anonymous said...

Er...blacks. not 'blanks'

Walter Graff said...

"Like you, I don't know all the facts. The grand jury saw the same video you and I did. They probably watched it 50 times. They may even know what happened before the man started shooting the video."


Again the only question the jury was asked was did Officer Pantaleo know there was a "substantial risk" that Garner would have died due to the take down. All the video in the world would not have shown that. Garner resisted. None of the officers, including the black Sargent in charge knew of his underlying issues.

Anonymous said...

You say egregious error. Are you sure the grand jury didn't get it right? Do you know more than they ?

Anonymous said...

Maybe we should let the students run the SC. They can't be worse that what we have now.

Anonymous said...

Yes very helpful.

Anonymous said...

The medical examiner ruled it a homicide. Perhaps you feel you know more than the medical examiner.

Maybe you ought to do some research and find out what the word homicide means in this context.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Mr. Graff. I find you to be a voice of reason. I'm not sure why so many people seem to side with the lawless. I hope they never need the help of the police.

Anonymous said...

Egregious error? You must know more than the grand jury did. You were privy to more facts then they?

Anonymous said...

Shoulda. Woulda. Coulda.

Anonymous said...

Thank you. I appreciate that. You are entirely correct.

Anonymous said...

A homicide is correct. But not a murder. Anytime a person is killed it is a homicide. Unless it's a suicide. Doesn't mean it was not an accident.

Anonymous said...

Let's be clear with terminology. If you are being beaten in your home by an intruder, and you shoot or stab him in self defense, it will be termed a homicide by the medical examiner. There is a huge difference between that and murder. Richard Marsh

Anonymous said...

I agree. You are hanging your hat on the word homicide and using it incorrectly to prove a point. Anytime someone doesn't die of natural causes or suicide, it can be ruled a homicide by the medical examiner so to say that it needs to be looked at further. The medical examiner is not saying it a "murder" as you are trying to make it sound.

Walter Graff said...

The death of James Brady, President Reagan's press secretary who was wounded in the attempt on Reagan's life 1981 was a homicide when he died 33 years after the shooting according to the medical examiner. In medical examiners talk, anytime a person outside of the deceased may have been involved in contributing to his death, the ME calls it a homicide. In the case of Garner the police doing their job attempting to subdue the accused exasperated Garners underlying medical issues including Asthma, and heart issues.

The sad part is that this is nothing more than a story of indoctrination. Students (incorrectly) walking with their hands up, crying outrage because a black man died, assuming it was due to something racial rather than the arrest of a criminal.

The school would have been better to present the facts of he story and let the children discuss the situation and the outcome rather than allowing them to follow the hyperbole of the media and activists whose job it is to create tension. I doubt a single student or a parent of any of those students could have answered the simplest of questions - what was the Grand Jury making a decision about? Instead they listen to one-sided television media, so-called public radio, and a host of other political groups who care little about reality but rather are about their agenda.

The school failed the children by teaching them to believe hype rather than looking at facts and making an educated conclusion. Perfect training for the voting system in this country.

Anonymous said...

How can you keep groups r individuals out of a protest? It's a free country, ain't it?

Anonymous said...

We do not have a video of The man's death. He died on the way to the hospital. In the ambulance. We really think you saw something the grand jury did not?

Anonymous said...

You don't even know why the kids did the walkout-dialogue, do you, Walter?

The kids did the walkout-dialogue because they said "We feel the need to create a space to have an open dialogue on Ferguson in a manner that the administration will not be able to support during the school day."

They also said "We are moving away from the case-specific (the Michael Brown case) because it isn't effective for anti-racist organizing in a community that is isolated from Ferguson."

The kids needed a time they were all available to gather and walk to the library and discuss, amongst themselves, the situation and how they all feel about it. I know for a fact some kids felt the grand jury decision was appropriate but wanted to honor a life lost during a controversial episode, be included in the discussion, and with no adults allowed. Reading so many know-it-all and intolerant posts online and having seen the way adults in this town conduct themselves at meetings and during online discussions I understand why they didn't want us there and wanted to get out some thoughts to each other. For example, Walter, you call people "bitches" and "dolts" and "idiots" and much worse during "grown-up" conversations about local issues ...... what does THAT teach our kids? (To keep you out of their mature discussions, that's what!)

I remember when I was in high school kids did a walk out because they wanted more time to go to the smoking area. We shouldn't assume they are walking out just to get out of class like we did. These kids are smart, they know what they believe, and they very effectively gathered and, from what I understand, intelligently discussed an issue that has affected all of us.

Anonymous said...

The whole hands up don't shoot thing is complete nonsense based on a provable lie. And yet there are people even today (clearly today!) who believe it and propagate it. Maybe some students will march for truth one day.

Anonymous said...

Shouldn't we protest on our own time? Not sure my boss would agree to let the folks on my shift leave for a demonstration.

Anonymous said...

How can you keep groups r individuals out of a protest? It's a free country, ain't it?

It wasn't a protest, it was a walkout-dialogue. Read the intelligent statement from the kids as to why they did what they did.

But you're right, if a couple of adults who weren't invited (the organizing students invited all current and former ARHS students ONLY) want to crash some teenager's walkout-dialogue, not much anyone can do about it. However they did successfully exclude the adults from their discussion. Even the one's who stood on cars to get attention.

Incidentally, ARPS School Committee chair and representative from Pelham, Trevor Baptiste, had time during the day today to attend a high school walkout, but apparently did not have time to attend this evening's Pelham School Committee meeting.

Walter Graff said...

"You don't even know why the kids did the walkout-dialogue, do you, Walter?"


I read the same thing you did. The kids should have had a dialogue after the facts, not before them, not starting out with one side of an argument. The school failed them and they believe the rhetoric that is being passed around and started their dialogue from that rather than two sides of a story. Yes, it states that in their protest page. Sad that they didn't start from some facts but rather from the rhetoric, and then had a real dialogue. Monkey see, monkey do society we live in.

Walter Graff said...

"Walter, you call people "bitches" and "dolts" and "idiots" and much worse during "grown-up" conversations about local issues ...... what does THAT teach our kids?"

I see you use quotes for supposed words I use. Funny.

Anonymous said...

Walter, you called former Fort River principal Monica Hall a "bitch" and you called Superintendent Maria Geryk a "dolt". Those statements are still on here, they are not supposed. You've said far wrose and about a lot of other people on here as well. Shall I pull up the quotes? You are not trying to deny those statements, are you? did you think they would disappear or something?

Anonymous said...

January 17, 2014 at 7:34 PM

Walter Graff said...

Two things are happening right now somewhere in the world.

First the teachers from Fort River are partying and toasting. Hall was a bitch. She was disliked and liked no one. She was just an angry women who acted like she was better than everyone else. Now it will go to her head as she will get a raise and enjoy little work. I wonder if this means she will have time to get the degree she promised she'd get if they hired her.

Anonymous said...

Walter, you're not really going to deny that you've done a lot of immature name-calling on this blog, are you? Should I post more?

Again, you are a perfect example of why the mature students wanted to keep choildish and narcissistic adults like you and Shabazz out of the discussion.

Anonymous said...

Walter said The kids should have had a dialogue after the facts, not before them, not starting out with one side of an argument.

Walter, you have no idea how the discussion proceeded or what they discussed, you weren't there. You are assuming, like asses often do. The discussion was a closed door, students only affair at the meeting room of the Jones Library.

Anonymous said...

Nina Koch said the following:

"Selling untaxed cigarettes is not an offense punishable by death."

Eric Garner's death is an accident, which results from his resistance to police officer's arrest attempt. Police did NOT punish Garner by death.

It is unfortunate that we have such teacher in our high school who didn't present both side of the story and fact to the students, and instead, spin the story her own way.

Anonymous said...

A walkout-dialogue. Oh. I see. I'm going to try to get me one of those. (If it walks like a duck...)

Nina Koch said...

The students did not ask to be excused from class for the protest. They stated that this was an act of civil disobedience and they understood that such acts can have consequences.

They conducted themselves very responsibly. Before leaving they made lists of names, so that we would be aware of who was out of the building. The march to town was very orderly.

I think they were wise to keep adults out of the discussion. They are capable of having it themselves and they felt a need to do so in a particular environment.

I'm not interested in continuing to debate the merits of the cases on this blog, but I do feel an obligation to defend our ARHS students.

Anonymous said...

Let the name-calling continue!

Anonymous said...

I hope that the students discussed a solution to the problem of making everything about race.

Anonymous said...

The medical examiner ruled [Eric Garner's death] a homicide.

"Homicide" is the killing of one human by another. It could be entirely accidental, carefully premeditated, or anything in between. It is not synonymous with "murder".

Anonymous said...

Ifyou make everything about race, that makes you a racist doesn't it?

Anonymous said...

2447 blacks were killed by blacks in 2011. 193 blacks were killed by whites. In the same year 448 whites were killed by blacks.

Anonymous said...

"AnonymousDecember 4, 2014 at 10:50 PM
Walter, you're not really going to deny that you've done a lot of immature name-calling on this blog, are you? Should I post more?

Again, you are a perfect example of why the mature students wanted to keep choildish and narcissistic adults like you and Shabazz out of the discussion."

You think Wally is bad? He's just following the lead of our Super's spouse. Now theres a fine example!

Anonymous said...

Almost 13 times as many blacks killed by blacks as blacks killed by whites.

Dr. Ed said...

Three things:

First, WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO THE TRUANCY LAWS??? It was every bit as illegal for the ARHS students to not be in school as it was for the UMass students to be drinking beer -- in both cases, they were "underaged."

Unless you are willing to say that someone who is under 21 can drink beer "for a good cause" then you can't say that someone (a) under 18 who (b) hasn't filled out the proper paperwork (if over 16) can be truant "for a good cause."

Second, Nina, I wonder how many of your geniuses could even comprehend the Commonwealth's statutes regarding the lawful use of deadly force, let alone articulate how they differ from those of the State of Missouri.

Not to worry, a good chunk of the UMass Administration wouldn't be able to do this either -- they weren't even bright enough to recognize a summary of the Commonwealth's self-defense statutes after an impartial third party pointed it out to them, but I digress.

Nina, do you know why John Adams defended the British soldiers on trial for murder after the so-called Boston Massacre? Nina, did you even know he did or that he lost a good portion of his law practice because of it?

Nina, do you even know where the "Boston Massacre" happened? (The building's still there -- it's now an entrance to the subway.)

And third, what about Dillon Taylor?

How, exactly, is this different?

Oh, I understand, White men don't have civil rights. That, boys 'n' girls, is tactically stupid because if White men don't see the civil rights laws benefiting *them* (too), they won't continue to support them. Then what???


Nina said:
We have great students at ARHS and I too am proud of them for how they managed this event.

And there was a time when you'd been fired for that. Truancy IS illegal...

Dr. Ed said...

The kids should have had a dialogue after the facts, not before them, not starting out with one side of an argument.

Walter, I argue they should also obey the damn law -- or accept the consequences of not doing so.

If UM kids can't drink beer in public because the law say so (and people demand that law be enforced) then these kids ought to be told to obey the law that says they are to be IN SCHOOL, LEARNING THINGS -- and dialoguing later...

Anonymous said...

Anonymous Nina Koch said...
The students did not ask to be excused from class for the protest. They stated that this was an act of civil disobedience and they understood that such acts can have consequences.


OK Nina, what happens when Governor Baker decides to revoke their drivers' licenses for this? Any problems with that?

It's far less than what happened to the UM students who get reported to Queen Enku...

Anonymous said...

To paraphrase Churchill, "if you're 20 and not a liberal than you have no heart. If you're 50 and not a conservative, then you have no brain." Most of the kids I would think are simply reflecting liberalism and the agenda under which they have been brought up. No surprise there. They feel rather than think.I would love to see some diversity and I don't mean skin color. I mean diversity of thought. For a change.

Anonymous said...

Funny... Many of the kids called it a protest. We use the term walkout-dialogue . Whatever. Did anything get resolved? Or is it also none of our business as parents?

Anonymous said...

We don't really want a dialogue, do we? All we want to do is scream at each other, accuse each other and call anyone who disagrees with the agenda a "hater." It's not really a dialogue if it's one-sided. And regarding the Middle School, why would anyone want to 'honor' Michael Brown? Why do they side with the lawless in our midst? How about teaching love of country? Again, hats off to MS Music for at least teaching the national anthem.

Dr. Ed said...

Exodus 22.2 -- (King James Bible):

"If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed."

You have a right (and obligation) to defend your life -- if someone is coming at you with what you reasonably believe to be lethal intent and you have no place to retreat to, you have a God-given right to kill that person. You are not supposed to just stand there and let him/her/it murder you, it's the same thing as committing suicide.

And police officers are people too -- they have the same "right to life" that anyone else has -- a civilian would have been justified in shooting Michael Brown under the circumstances as we know them.

A man reaches into your car, smashes in your face (broken bones around eye) and tries to shoot you with your own gun. The gun fires -- inside the cruiser -- which would be incredibly disorienting even without the head injury (and likely concussion).

Brown's "high as a kite" -- this has "PCP" (aka "Angle Dust") written all over it -- and PCP (and it's chemically similar cousins) is the only drug that actually terrifies me, dealing with someone on it is like driving on black ice, but I digress.

So someone my size has just smashed in your face and nearly shot you -- and then turns around and starts charging at you again. (PCP's like that -- radical unexpected behavior changes). He nearly killed you what -- 90 seconds ago -- you don't fear that this time he actually will kill you?

I'd have shot him -- and I'd have kept firing at least until the gun was empty -- and Eric Holder would have too!

Remember too that a racist would have killed BOTH Black men -- if the goal is to murder Black men and you've already murdered one in front of his friend, you're going to leave the friend alive to testify against you????

No, this was "he's gonna kill me" and nothing more -- everything else had long ago become irrelevant...

Which, Nina, goes to the Boston Massacre. The soldiers (policemen of the day) were in front of what is now the "Old State House" (and a Blue Line MBTA entrance) with the door locked behind them. The church bell was the fire alarm of the day -- that's why it being rung is significant -- and the fire department was "everyone."

Crispus Attucks was my size and he swung a "piece of cordwood" (a 4-foot log) at the head of a soldier, who fired in self-defense. Remember that this was before modern medicine -- although if someone were swinging a baseball bat at the head of a police officer today -- an officer with no place to retreat to -- would the officer not be justified in shooting the perp to protect his OWN life?

That was Adams' point -- as much as he disliked the British being in Boston, they had the right to defend themselves against deadly threats. Attucks would have killed that soldier if he hadn't been stopped -- shooting Attucks was thus justifiable.\

Michael Brown would have killed that police officer -- shooting him was also thus justifiable.

Dr. Ed said...

Nina Koch said...
Selling untaxed cigarettes is not an offense punishable by death.


And violating the Amherst Noise Ordinance is not an offense even punishable by incarceration.

So why is it OK to incarcerate those accused of violating it?

Folks, you can't have this both ways....

Anonymous said...

All the comments here, all the news media coverage of Ferguson, and now the efforts of sincere local high school students raise the big question for me:

How much do you have to KNOW to be able to say (and to say with the kind of confidence that would cause you to go out on the street and demonstrate) that an injustice has occurred? I know that young people feel the need to respond, with action, when injustice occurs. I also know that simply waiting in indecision for more facts to come in would lead to nothing being accomplished.

I think this question of how we reliably identify injustice would lead to some productive discussion inside of a school environment, since, I assume, that education involves examining and then reexamining one's assumptions, even when that's hard.

These cases of alleged police misbehavior all turn on their own facts, but, in general, I am not seeing many people moving off of their predetermined agendas in the face of new facts. Have you heard anyone say "I was wrong" or "I've got to think about this again"? If you haven't, how can that be?

I include in this our cable news networks, including MSNBC and CNN, which include commentators who don't get paid, or wouldn't last long, for saying things like "gee, this puts things in a new light".

In short, I am seeing more reacting than reconsidering going on, and I'm wondering whether our local high school students are exploring this in any way, either amongst themselves or in a classroom with a teacher.

How does some act or set of acts get agreed upon as "an injustice" these days and what are the safeguards (since blame is then assigned) against getting it wrong?

For me, justice isn't just a set of outcomes; it includes a carefully constructed, intentional process to get to an outcome.

Rich Morse

Anonymous said...

Oh dear, Ed's off his meds...

Nina Koch said...

Rich,

We did have conversations with students in advisory today. One of the things we talked about in our advisory was the notion that two people can look at the same evidence and come away with different conclusions. We also talked about how any presentation of news is going to involve some form of bias, in that the presenter chooses what to include, what to exclude, what to emphasize, and so forth. So there was a consideration of the role of perspective. Kids will sometimes make statements like "everybody knows that such and such happened..." and I wanted to challenge them on that.

Anonymous said...

Some of the students were so mature that they gave shit to some of the students who did not choose to participate. I spoke with one student who told me that he did not know enough of the facts in either the Ferguson case or the New York case. He mentioned to me that he did take guff for it. Fortunately, he did not seem upset in the least. I was glad to hear he did not give in to peer pressure.

Anonymous said...

You gotta try other networks. Try to act less on how you'feel' and ore on thinking the things through. You'd prbably not be selected to serve on a jury if you 'felt' one way or the other. I chamged my mind, incidentally. Even channel 22 called Garner's death a "death by choking". They are basing that on a falsehood. I changed my mind about Garner's case when I learned about the heart attack in the ambulance. I suppose there are those who think that the cop was out to kill him. I think no I'm sure about this: when a cop stops you it's your duty to comply no matter who you are. If you resist, you're going to get hurt. You might even get killed. No matter who you are.

Anonymous said...

Makes sense to me.

Anonymous said...

i heard there were a lot of adults giving each other guff on the internets.

Anonymous said...

Well, you came to the right place.

Anonymous said...

The people who give there opinions on this blog are wicked smart. I'm gonna keep coming hear so I can know right things to think.

Anonymous said...

Yes. This blog is one of the best things about the town! And there really is diversity of thought here. No need to be a pod person here.

Anonymous said...

Nobody turns down the volume and restores calm to this blog quite like Ed.

Dr. Ed said...


"How does some act or set of acts get agreed upon as "an injustice" these days and what are the safeguards (since blame is then assigned) against getting it wrong? "

Well, the flip side of this is the UVA frat gang rape that apparently never happened. Seems that none of those fratboys ever worked in the aquatic center (there are payroll records and such), the frat didn't have a party the night the rape allegedly occurred, and doesn't even have a fall rush...

Sorta reminds me of the UM Campus Pond Rapist who never existed...

kurt geryk said...

"You think Wally is bad? He's just following the lead of our Super's spouse. Now theres a fine example"

Stay tuned, I've been scouring the English dictionary and the archives of the BBC for more bad words, sure to offend the delicate sensibilities of the very proper people that frequent this blog.

Anonymous said...

Sarcasm is anger in disguise. Personally, I'm not sure where the font setting is for it, though...

Anonymous said...

The video of Michael Brown with the storekeeper clearly shows his demeanor that day.


Anonymous said...

Brown was a fool to do what he did. Sorry he committed suicide by cop though. I wish he DID raise his hands in surrender. Shoulda, woulda, coulda.

Mommy and Daddy they're destroying our family said...

"Stay tuned, I've been scouring the English dictionary and the archives of the BBC for more bad words, sure to offend the delicate sensibilities of the very proper people that frequent this blog."


Remember me?

https://upworthy-production.s3.amazonaws.com/nugget/515cbdb3bbd602000200b113/attachments/Louis_D._Brandeis.jpg


Have a holly jolly Christmas,

Geryk.


-Squeaky Squeaks


p.s. Now, let's get back to basics, shall we?

Anonymous said...

Re: our superintendent & her spouse, & his comments on this blog & elsewhere:

I realize it's different level of gov't & politics, but still it's interesting to see how different Stan Rosenberg's response to concerns about his partner's inappropriate comments:

"The Boston Globe reported Wednesday that Bryon Hefner, Rosenberg’s partner, had taunted outgoing Senate President Therese Murray on social media and bragged to other senators about his influence on the decisions Rosenberg would make as incoming president. Rosenberg responded that he had asked Hefner to stop the inappropriate remarks and that, while he and Hefner are in a relationship, his partner would have no say on Senate business."

Maria Geryk generally stays mum about her spouse's comments, & when people have contacted her after feeling attacked by his comments and emails, she has responded that he is entitled to his own opinion.

Anonymous said...

Since this was about the walkout, I'd like to know: Brown proved himself a criminal and a fool who commited suicide by cop. Why "honor" him? Where are the voices against the lawless?

Anonymous said...

I know where those voices are. Lost in this Tower of Babel.