Click to enlarge photoUPDATE: 12:45 PM Friday
On Jan 9, 2009, at 11:05:20 AM, "Bodhi, Epi"
Larry,
Thanks for the information. We will investigate ASAP.
Epi Bodhi
Director of Public Health
Amherst, MA
413 259 3077
413 259 2404
On Jan 9, 2009, at 12:40:32 PM, amherstac@aol.com wrote:
Hey Epi,
Thanks. I can no longer investigate, because the Sheriff’s department
is about to issue me (at 2:00 PM) a "trespass order"
Larry
UPDATE: 11:00 AM Friday
From: amherstac@aol.com
Subject: Formal request for a Health Department investigation
Date: January 9, 2009 10:59:39 AM EST
To: bodhie@amherstma.gov
Dear Ms. Bodhi,
Please consider this a formal complaint and request for a Health Department investigation of the current hot water (or lack thereof) situation at the Amherst Wildwood Elementary School, where over 400 Amherst children spend a significant part of the day.
On three different occasions I have tested the water coming out the tap in a Boy's Bathroom and all three times the temperature was less than 80 degrees. I believe this to be a health hazard (especially if the cafeteria washes dishes at too low a temperature).
Thank you for your consideration and prompt attention to this public safety matter.
Larry Kelley
5’th generation Amherst resident, taxpayer, voter
CC: Mass Department of Education
ORIGINAL POST: Thursday afternoon
So I went to the Wildwood Elementary School this afternoon around 2:00 PM and as agreed with acting co-superintendent Alton Sprague dutifully reported to the business office as a “visitor." The women said, “You’re Larry Kelley!” And I of course responded “yes” (while looking around to see if they had put up ‘Wanted: Dead or Alive’ posters with my picture).
A few minutes later the rookie Principal Matt Behnke appears. He wanted to know “my intentions.” I said, “well I have to use the bathroom (and at that point I really did) and when I wash my hands (which my Irish mother taught me to do) I am going to check the water temperature”.
He then requested I return after school lets out. I said the bathroom is only 20 yards away and a moment ago no kids were in there. He again said come back later. I said I had to pee and I’m going to use the bathroom; he followed me in. He even looked around to make sure no children were present (because I said if so, I would leave immediately).
We both peed. I started the hot water (instantly noticing the faucet top plate had been switched from my last visit so now the left one actually had a “H”) and let it run for two minutes with my new, larger $2 Wal-Mart thermometer (twice the cost of the previous smaller one) directly in the stream.
While the water was still running I whipped out my camera. He said, “Please do not take a picture”. I said “Why?” He said, “Because I was told not to let you take a picture”. I said “Not good enough” and I took the picture.
As we exited into the hallway Alton Sprague, acting Co-Superintendent hurries in looking pissed. We retire to a back office for further conversation.
He accused me of lying about “picking up the pieces” of the broken thermometer from my previous visit and he actually produced from a folded white business envelope the glass tubular part of the thermometer (completely intact with red dye that is NOT mercury still dutifully recording room temperature) and said a child found it.
I responded that it fell against the side of the sink and the glass tubular part broke away from the plastic backing and after a few minutes looking for it I assumed it went down the drain. Again he mentions “mercury” and again I unequivocally state that the company prints on the packaging (and I just purchased another one an hour earlier) that no mercury is used.
He then threatens (yet again) to get a “restraining order’ against me because I failed to adhere to our previous verbal agreement. I responded that my memory is I agreed to announce myself to the front office. He said “No”, you also need to “get permission” to do whatever, and he had that previous phone conversation “on tape.”
Hmmm…last I looked it’s illegal to tape a phone conversation without informing the person on the other end.
And any number of times I tried to get back to the simple results of my temperature test asking if under 80 degree water temperature was okay, neither of them wanted to answer, Mr. Sprague then asked why should I be allowed to enter this public building with a camera? And I responded “freedom of the press”.
He freaked; end of discussion.
Using the exact same methodology at my house five minutes later.
86 comments:
Glad your on the beat Larry,
But my kids who go to school there tell me the water is a fine temperature when they wash their hands, and they haven't brought home a cold virus yet. I don't think the water temperature issue is a big deal, and if you left a sharp piece of broken glass in the kids bathroom, I can understand why they're pissed.
Larry,
Your self-righteous attitude is a complete embarrassment. This is a town owned building but that doesn't mean that it is open to the general public. You made your point the first time. Bring these issues up before town meeting and the select board but stay out of the schools. You have no special privileges so quit playing junior cub reporter and go through proper channels.
Well if you read either of my posts on this issue you would know I did not leave a "sharp piece of broken glass in the kids bathroom".
In fact, the freaken glass did not break. As a result NO sharp pieces and NO leakage of the red fluid inside (which again--for the 5'th or 6'th time--IS NOT MERCURY!)
Anon 2: A town owned building "but that doesn't mean that it is open to the general public." You sir, are a nitwit.
And this time I did go through "proper channels".
Larry,
Enough of these a**holes...
Time to play hardball.
Oh yeah, oh oh yeah, time to play...
Gibber
Well, I may be a nitwit but i now the law better than you. The people own the White House too so just walk right in.
They should aughta check the temperature at the tank: from http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infwaterheater/infwhadjust.html
How hot should your hot water be?
According to the US Department of Energy, a temperature of 120 degrees at the tap is adequate for most household chores with a minimal danger of scalding and maximal energy efficiency. However, that is the temperature at the tap, not in the tank. Tank temperature should be no less than 130 degrees to prevent bacterial growth, such as Legionnaires disease.
Actually I did just walk right in the White House (had to pull a string or two because it was only months after 9/11)
The funny thing is if I were a "junior cub reporter" working for the crusty Gazette, and the rookie Principal demanded 'no photos' it probably would have been honored.
But then, the thermometer still measured and read out the temperature. And would you take the word of that diffident reporter?
If under 80 degrees is fine with you then fine. Let me know where you live and I'll come TRY to turn down your hot water heater to that low a setting.
My brand new one is turned down as low as possible and this afternoon's reading was still around 120.
Thanks Gavin, (we posted at the same time so you owe me a beer)
I have yet to find a single source that recommends anything under 110 degrees at the tap.
So I'm not a math wizard, but under-80 degrees is NOT EVEN CLOSE!
I just find it silly that the old guy threatened you with a restraining order. You're a Citizen of Amherst, a local business owner, you pay taxes, and your kids go to school there. It's not like you're a complete stranger wandering around in the school or something. You have a legitimate beef and you're not hurting anyone. As long as you follow the rules - checking in the front office as required - I have no problem with what you did.
I'm a teacher in the school system. I would leave my name, but the old guy would probably have me fired.
He's kind of nuts (all the teachers think so)
That's kick a** Larry. As an Amherst resident and parent you're completely in the right here. Has anyone in that school given a reason for the low water temperature yet? Is it due to a pending repair, or are they trying to save money by purposely keeping the temp down..?
I think you conducted yourself in an appropriate and honorable manner, Larry. Credit were credit is due.
You pursued your concern and your desire to get empirical data in an appropriate manner. You announced yourself and allowed them to satisfy their responsibilities by accompanying a visitor in the building.
Also, to verify that you didn't pee in the toilet or poop in the urinal (well I don't really understand why they followed you in there but whatever) and then you washed your hands, only then checking the temperature of the hot water. Well done.
In obtaining the information, you conducted yourself with reason and respect for the officials you encountered, and yet you were not dissuaded by their arbitrary stiff arm or unreasonable and inflammatory roadblocks. They are educational administrators, we'll cut them some slack for overreacting.
Now we can have the conversation about health and safety based on facts. ...Whereas without the facts both your concern and the conversation would have been subverted.
You came and went through the front door. You announced yourself and your purpose. You didn't allow yourself to be dissuaded by educational administrators with a propensity to overreact.
That said, are Gavin Andresen's temperatures right? 130F at the hot water heater and 120F at the faucet for health and safety? If not, what?
Who is in charge of setting hot water temps for health and safety?
Larry... Your a hero. One of these days you're gonna shove your head so far up someone's (you know what) it's gonna take 20 proctologists on steriods to pull you out!
Thank you for alerting me to the fact my kids are in harm's way for bacterial growth coming out of those faucets while those greedy teachers and central office staff give themselves raises! We should have these schools filled with college students working for credit and evaporate the usell central office that costs us millions yearly for NOTHING but useless hot air.
While I would like the water to be the appropriate temperature I do want to point out that Larry's children do not attend wildwood nor any other of the public schools in Amherst.
His children attend a charter school that he and his wife (an atty, I understand) and some others applied to the state to get all of our tax dollars to fund.
Benefits a few children with a private type education at the taxpayers expense.
Wrong on a bunch of things there Anon: My wife is s College Professor, I have a child that attends the Pioneer Valley Chinese Immersion Charter School not "children".
Although yes, my two-year-old will go there in a few years.
Charter Schools ARE public schools and they outperform their sending districts and overall at a cheaper costs.
PVCIC as an Elementary School will max out at 300 (although I'm now hearing the plan to become a High School as well--so it could very well be double that)
Hardly what I call "a few children."
Hey O'Reilly,
Yeah Gavin is quite the numbers wonk so his figures are on the money. Most hot water heaters leave the factory set at 150 so they are a tad too hot at the tap and should be turned down.
OSHA and Mass Department of Education both require a minimum of 110. But all the experts agree 120 is about perfect.
Yes, Tony there is a savings if you lower from say 150 to 120 (about 4% per ten degrees) but that stops at the 120 mark. So going from 120 to 80 has no additional savings.
I am a little concerned with what I view was an overreaction by Principal Benke and Super Sprague. Your request was reasonable and respectfully submitted through the requested protocol (i.e. signing in at the office), and if there was nothing to hide (i.e. there is nothing wrong with the water temperature), then what is the big deal? Don't they have better things to do than follow a member of the press into the bathroom and then deliver a follow-up lecture?! I would prefer to see their time spent either on an internal investigation of the water temperature issue and on writing a brief report to the School Committee providing a summary of the current water temperature status and any plans to rectify it, if indeed there is a problem.
So exactly why is it that you do not just report this to the proper board?
Anon 10:31AM...Like you, I also wanted this to enter to realm of official investigation so have written to a member of our School Committee and asked that it be raised as an agenda item at the Elementary School Committee meeting next Tuesday. Larry may or may not have already done this, but I thought another person asking couldn't hurt. I urge you to do the same.
I would like to say "Thanks Larry". You have the kind of courage that most people living in Amherst do not. It takes someone with conviction to "fight" the system. The administrators are seeing you as the problem and defensive so they can avoid the real issues. Nothing to hide-- Let the sun shine, Let the sun shine!
Thanks again you're terrific!
If the Superintendent really wants to go by the book, then technically a concerned citizen is supposed to go to the Board of Health and they are supposed to convene a meeting to address Larry's concern (I don't know if he even has to be a registered voter, but I do know they must if he is).
The BoH is then supposed to authorize someone - with police power including the ability to obtain a search warrant if the Supt wants to be obnoxious - to then enter the school and measure the temp of the water "at the time and conditions" when it is reported as being under 110 degrees.
Now, two problems here. First unlike most towns where the Board of Health is elected (like the selectboard, staggered terms and all), the Amherst Town Mangler Act has them appointed by, guess who...
And second, you don't honestly expect the members of the board of health to investigate the town, do you?
So then you get into the state ethics acts (nonfeasence of duty and such) and other such fun things.
The long and short of this is this: Larry should never have had the ability to make this an issue because a competent Board of Health would have done it before him. THEY should have been in ALL the schools and not only checking the water but also the air. I am not saying anything is wrong but any competent person in the field seeing poor maintenance in one system would wonder about mold in the ducts and unchanged filters and whatnot in the HVAC as well....
BTW, where is the PTA in all of this? I thought the reason why we *had* PTAs (Parent/Teacher Associations) was to address this kind of stuff....
Well if you remember the Awad/Hubley "residency scandal" (and gee, where are they living now?) I complained in writing to the Secretary of State, the Attorney General and even more hilariously the local ones who should have dealt with it: "The Amherst Board of Registrars" (you know with Harry Brooks as one of the three who gave a tearful farewell a month later at her going away party, a hearing called and overseen by the Town Clerk who could be fired in a heartbeat by the Town Manager who even then was still sucking up to Czar Awad).
So I'm not always impressed with going through channels.
But thanks Alison, the School Committee SHOULD be looking into this; and I somehow doubt the Acting Co-Superintendent will try to intimidate THEM. (And if you ever met Matt Behnke you would know he could not intimidate a mouse).
And what about Drunken ARHS Facebook pictures?
When this happened at UMass a few years back, the kids got deferred expulsion. But will ARHS do anything?
What about holding the high school kids to the standard we hold UMass kids????
Larry --
Remember Rosio the "winner" who won the Boston Marathon via the Green Line some years back?
Two words: Paper trail.
I would be writing letters to the Board of Health on a weekly basis requesting them to convene a meeting to deal with health code violations at Wildwood. CC the state on each of these.
Something else will eventually happen - say a regional flu outbreak - and someone in Boston will find the stack of letters and heads out here will roll. This is what cleaned up Springfield -- nothing more than one man (a maintenance supervisor for the housing authority) who made enough of a fuss to enough people about something really minor that eventually the right person decided to look into it and tripped over everything else in doing so.
The difference between this an Awad is that this is public safety where that was seen as political.
I know the dish machine at Wildwood. Used it for two years. It has a special element to keep the water heated to 180 degrees to clean and sanitize the dishes. Thast is why they do not allow children to operate the machine. Water is too DAMN hot for them.
Until later.............
Att'y or college professor; my point is that the educated privileged can use the "public" charter system to ensure quality private-like education for their children.
And I wanted to clarify for another poster that your child does not attend Wildwood as he/she posted.
There's a reason charter schools out perform standard public schools. The students are self selected from a narrow base of informed, predominantly educated and/or intelligent home bases.
Providing publicly funded services to a select few is what you seem to find so awful about Cherry Hill. I just enjoy seeing the paradox.
Larry said:
"But thanks Alison, the School Committee SHOULD be looking into this; and I somehow doubt the Acting Co-Superintendent will try to intimidate THEM. (And if you ever met Matt Behnke you would know he could not intimidate a mouse)."
Two things:
1.THERE IS SO MUCH THEY SHOULD BE LOOKING INTO!
They may have had the plumber, Carl R., take the drain apart to retrieve that glass... and made up the story about the child finding it. Don't think Bohonowicz and Sprague would do that? Think again.
These are wicked wicked people. I mean, we know that the plumber DID mess with the faucet...
And that poster in Peter Crouse's office that says "Quit yer bitchin'" we've seen it, and so has everyone who's worked there for the last 10 years.
You think they wouldn't cover up stuff? You think they don't intimidate?
Ask yourseves people of Amherst, how safe are your children in the care of these people?
I'd be worried, VERY worried...
The mole
Larry,
Did you write any letters to anybody or call the board of health before you started this grandstanding campaign?
Just askin'
Larry Kelley
5’th generation
How many generations of Kellys does it take until they learn that there is no ' in fifth?
Larry,
It's 5th as in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th....
You really do belong at Wildwood.
Anon (one of the many):
Cherry Hill involves recreation--hardly a necessity, education on the other hand...
And strangely enough, by trying to get the Amherst Public Schools to be a tad more efficient (since they are in the top-ten for average cost per child about 25% over that of all the Charter Schools in the state) it actually hurts the Chinese charter school because if the average cost of education in Amherst went down (and it should) then the amount the state sends to PVCIC for those Amherst kids (like my daughter) would also go down.
Ethel: Yes, dish washers have special elements that boost water temperature to kill bacteria, but they depend on the incoming water being at 120 or so.
Trespass Order? Are you serious?
Oh yeah, dead serious.
I hope the Sheriff, who I have known for many a year (and his son is a distinguished member of Amherst PD), will allow a photo of him serving me the trespass order.
And I will of course ask him how much this cost the School District. Yikes! Just another ‘Only in Amherst’ moment folks.
Who thinks up this baloney?
Yes, Tony there is a savings if you lower from say 150 to 120 (about 4% per ten degrees) but that stops at the 120 mark. So going from 120 to 80 has no additional savings.
-- Huh? so it takes no energy to raise the temperature from 80 to 120. Do any of the fans of this "journalist" think critically? Does anybody fact-check?
Ethel: Yes, dish washers have special elements that boost water temperature to kill bacteria, but they depend on the incoming water being at 120 or so.
-- Really? So the dishwasher checks the temperature and decides that if it's less than 120, don't bother heating it??? not my dishwasher.... must be a special one at Wildwood that only special people know the inner workings of.
Looks like we need a fact-checker here too. Any Joe the Plumbers out there?
I love it when you call people nitwit and I assume intentionally confuse what they say. Show us where the previous comment defended water temperatures of only 80 degrees. I think you're changing the subject, and I have to assume you don't want to answer the questions raised.
Are you saying that you know for a fact that it takes no energy to raise the temperature from 80 to 120, or did you make that up? I would love to see the source.
Are you saying that you know for a fact that if the water is less than 120, dishwashers don't heat the water?
Is it fun to call people "nitwit?"
Your readers and everybody for that matter should think critically. Challenge what is said. Check your facts.
"Your readers and everybody for that matter should think critically. Challenge what is said. Check your facts."
Right, so why don't YOU check THIS fact:
A few years ago an non-qualified individual, while working on a school vehicle, was injured, and BLINDED himself in one eye. That person still lives in town. Yet YET they still allow/ed any old maintenance person, qualified or not, to "fix" the very same vehicles that transport Amherst children day after day, year after year...
Ask Peter Crouse, he remembers.
So yeah, keep attacking Larry until the headline is "Amherst child dead in transportation mishap"... (Oh yeah that's ALREADY happened).
Idiots.
"Trespass Order"
This is the perfect example of how town officals "handle" problems that are brought to their attention, threaten the person asking the questions. Every person in Amherst should see this for what it really is--Intimidation! This is really unspeakable. When can a citizen bring to the attention of school/town officials a problem that should only take 45 minutes to fix and yet it gets elevated to a police action, holy smokes people what's next? This is outrageous--stop the threats and fix the GD problem Amherst!
Yikes! Asking the blogger if it's fun to call people nitwit, asking him about his "facts," and wondering if readers think critically is "attacking." Double-yikes.
And while you're at it, why don't you find out why, (and ONLY) after "uninvited internal pressure" (oh no, not from "managers") Amherst van drivers got their first safety trainings ONLY A FEW SHORT YEARS AGO!!!! Ask Brent Neilson, the former director of the "Building Blocks Program" (now at Fort River), he'll tell you. Where the hell was the loving and kind Peter Crouse?!
And NO, don't let Bohonowicz tell you it was HIS idea!!
So, find a way, get in there and UNCOVER just how CRIMINAL these monsters are...
No more games, no more lies... end of story.
Well, seems to me you deserved it as you've managed to make a mountain out of a molehill and waste a whole lot of peoples' time.
If you are concerned about the cost of the no trespass notice you should mail the town a check.
You barged into the school, repeatedly, and the fact that it's costing the town money big or small to keep you out I would hope would prompt the concerned citizen in you to get your check in the mail asap.
I sure don't want to pay even a penny of my taxes for your moronic actions.
P.S. who's the nitwit now?
Well nitwit, at one point when the acting co-superintendent mentioned the word "mercury" more than once, I finally said I would be more than happy to pay for a lab analysis of the thermometer (of course at that point he would have to break it to get at the red dye inside) to prove it was not mercury.
Naturally he did not take up my offer.
Larry Kelly
5'th generation and last to be allowed in our schools.
Ha! Ha! You're killing me!
I can't help but wonder why you are not responding to anonymous questioning your "journalistic" integrity.
He or she wrote
"I love it when you call people nitwit and I assume intentionally confuse what they say. Show us where the previous comment defended water temperatures of only 80 degrees. I think you're changing the subject, and I have to assume you don't want to answer the questions raised.
Are you saying that you know for a fact that it takes no energy to raise the temperature from 80 to 120, or did you make that up? I would love to see the source.
Are you saying that you know for a fact that if the water is less than 120, dishwashers don't heat the water?
Is it fun to call people "nitwit?"
Your readers and everybody for that matter should think critically. Challenge what is said. Check your facts."
anomymous 3
So Anon 3, when you were a kid, did your mother not teach you that setting the thermostat up to 85 (and then forgetting you had turned it up that high and went to bed) did not increase the RATE at which your house warmed up?
Nitwit.
What on earth are you talking about?
Go ahead. Make our day. Call us nitwits again. How grown up.
Nitwit
I may be a nitwit, but I don't have a No Trespass against me. That takes being a moron.
Signed,
Proud to be a nitwit
As to the dish machine, excepting the really massive machines like at UMass (where consumption of electricity gets expensive) they have an electric "BOOSTER" to boost the hot water up to 180 -- and it is based on the presumption that the water is already hot.
For example, the Building Code presumes that it is above zero outside -- and in subzero (F) weather, heating systems run wide open often aren't able to keep the place from being cold. So too here.
HAS ANYONE CHECKED TO SEE IF THE DISHWASHER IS ACTUALLY *AT* 180 DEGREES FOR THE ***ENTIRE*** RINSE CYCLE? The Board of Health has a lovely infra-red thermometer that is ideal for this, all one has to do is point it at the closed dishwasher (if it is metal shelled like all I have ever seen) and confirm this.
Notwithstanding this, I think a larger issue is being missed -- you get nailed for little IRRELEVANT stuff when the big boys in Boston start looking at everything. Were there to be a flu outbreak, they would see Larry's letters and - trying to look important/useful - would then do something about them.
BUT HAS THE BOARD OF HEALTH CERTIFIED THE DISHWASHER? AND HOW OFTEN DOES THE BOARD OF HEALTH INSPECT THE KITCHEN -- IN SOME STATES (WHERE THE STATE DOES THE INSPECTING) IT IS A TWICE ANNUAL INSPECTION.....
And I have pieces of paper that say I know what I am talking about here..
Did you sign autographs for the WW staff?
Walmart buys thermometers by the shipping container (i.e. trailer truck) load. There are a half dozen WalMarts within a half hour from here.
Does anyone honestly believe that someone couldn't have gone to WalMart and bought an identical thermometer and intentionally broke *it* and that the piece of glass comes from that?
Why bother tear apart the drain? Go get another one and break it -- most likely it came from the same production run in some Chinese glass factory and no one would ever be able to tell the difference (particularly even if you had a control sample, which you don't).
I still am reminded of Charlie Scherpa after the Hobart Riot -- he produced a smashed-up Glock gun and alleged that the UMass kids had broken it. Now Glocks are high-carbon composite construction that is stronger than steel, so if some UMass kid had smashed up the gun, how did the officer (whose bones are made of much weaker calcium compounds) manage not to have his hip/thigh smashed into little pieces?
And how did Charlie ever get the clip out? It is like being able to open the door of a wrecked car, you bend things with tight clearances and you no longer have clearance, but I digress....
History repeats itself -- make up stuff to discredit the college kids, make up stuff to discredit Larry Kelly. Gotta love Amherst...
In response to the "mole"
The "plumber" is a Mr. Karl Richardson, and he does not hold a plumbers license from the State of Massachusetts. Perhaps the problem is not a faulty water heater, but a unqualified handyman working on the water heater.It is my understanding that a license is required for any plumbing work performed in this state. Please correct me if i'm wrong.
Larry, You are bound by the same laws and policies as everyone else. No more and no less. Dunno whether you are being singled out with special requirements.
It sounds like the Sheriff's Department was going to issue an order that described the conditions under which you are allowed to enter Wildwood, etc as opposed to charging you with trespassing violation. What does the order say?
If the order is a citation for trespassing, consent is a valid defense: He gave you permission to enter the bathroom, he even escorted you there. Dunno if there are laws or policies about cameras in schools, doubt it.
I don't think you can be given a unique set of rules about access, different from every other Amherst taxpayer, resident, citizen of the Commonwealth.
Here is a the most current Handbook from Wildwood. There is no language regarding the terms under which adults may enter the school. There is language about codes of conduct. I think the principal may have violated the code of conduct.
All the order says is to stay away from all school property unless given "prior written approval of the Superintendent", or I will be "subject to arrest."
But since Town Meeting takes place at the Middle School and School Committee meetings take place at the High School...
And darn, I was so looking forward to "The Vagina Monologues"
Turnabout Fairplay said:
For years LK4 has been cluelessly trying to tarnish the reputations of Amherst residents (many innocent) with whom (he believes) disagrees. But he's a big boy now and needs no apologists.
Nevertheless, LK4 (and a few others) could be more careful dealing with Mother Nature: while it is true that the energy required to raise water from 80 to 120 is the same needed to go from 120 to 160, it is also true that the RATE at which a hot water tank cools off from 160 to room temp is roughly double the rate of cooling from 120 to room temp; that's probably what he was trying to articulate in his clumsy (nitwitty? moronic?) way.
As far as the matter at hand: the 80F water is just fine for washing hands AS LONG AS ONE USES SOAP; there's no need for 120F (or even 100F, which feels pretty warm to most hands). In fact,
120F water for more than a few seconds can be quite painful to hands, and does no better at cleansing/rinsing soapy hands than 80F.
So.... Send in that $40 check, LK4, and get on to something more important!
Well Said!
Indeed!!
Yes. Back to one of the other losing causes... Cherry Hill?
You are the Gomer Pyle of Amherst. You are always running around shouting "citizen's arrest."
Yeah, maybe they went to Wal-Mart, bought a thermometer and broke it.
That's the ticket...because they have nothing better to do.
Larry's been framed.
Let's meet in the treehouse and make "Free Larry Kelly" signs.
Well, I’m glad you nitwits finally went to bed last night so you start in this morning (I on the other hand have to go to work).
So my nitwit Professor of Thermodynamics is you defending less than 80 degrees at the tap? And are you saying it is simply a cost saving measure (so at any time anybody without a degree in engineering can simply turn up a thermostat and the water will magically, eventually go to 120? Because if that is the case, they may want to do that before the Board of Health pays a visit.
And last year the Chinese Charter School (their first year of existence and in fact the ONLY charter given out that year cost Amherst nothing because the state reimburses sending costs 100% the first year and a lesser percentage this year and the next.
And that $1.5 million Federal grant also has no impact on Amherst schools (although it probably represents ten times what the Amherst schools ever received in Federal monies).
A Chinese charter school? There's a critical need if I've ever heard one. Why don't they use that money to rebuild schools in poor communities rather than giving 1.5 million so affluent people can indulge their whims. The PVPA is another self-indulgent fiasco. What's next, a charter school for crystal-gazing new age children to learn in a gluten free environment?
The one thing I had to learn about the dish mschine, was maintainence and warning signs. Constant temp checks were a must during oeration. Machine was turned on at 6 A.M. and drained and cleaned before leaving for the day. Yes, separate element to heat water, and never had as cold tray exit from machine. Needed at least two minutes to be able to remove trays, or pots and pans, from racks. If the water temp became a problem on the machine, then we were directed to call maintainence immediately, or use paper plates.
Sorry, Larry, that this town is upside down. What happened to Amherst?
Until later...............
Once again:
I can't help but wonder why you are not responding to "anonymous" questioning your "journalistic" integrity.
He or she wrote
"I love it when you call people nitwit and I assume intentionally confuse what they say. Show us where the previous comment defended water temperatures of only 80 degrees. I think you're changing the subject, and I have to assume you don't want to answer the questions raised.
Are you saying that you know for a fact that it takes no energy to raise the temperature from 80 to 120, or did you make that up? I would love to see the source.
Are you saying that you know for a fact that if the water is less than 120, dishwashers don't heat the water?
Is it fun to call people "nitwit?"
Your readers and everybody for that matter should think critically. Challenge what is said. Check your facts."
If you don't respond to the critical questions, your fans may stop reading. Yikes!
anomymous 3
PS... It's going to be fun when your kids and their friends start reading this stuff and the archives of it. Good lessons for the young-uns in how to get along with other people. Call them nitwits. Yes call them names. sigh.... You must realize that this is one of the reasons that so many people take their business elsewhere don't you?
It's good to see that the vast majority of people who disagree with you hold back from the name-calling thing.
Noun 1. nitwit - a stupid incompetent person .
It seems that it would be difficult to brand an anonymous person. A better use of LK4's time might be to give consideration to others thoughts of his concerns rather than name calling. That seems to be the least mature response available.
Food for thought.......
Yeah, you nitwit, it is indeed hard to "brand an anonymous person" (like yourself) as either a "nitwit" or "saint".
Thanks for making my point (you freaken nitwit)
Think of me what you may. Was I to introduce myself to you I believe that you would be hard pressed to find me a "Nitwit". However, you appear to be the type of individual that will either dig in and find anything questionable or manufacture falsehoods to belittle anyone who will not succumb to your postition or ideal. Carry on Larry, I enjoy the show!
Have you heard the dispostion of the Board of Health yet?
Lsarry,
What compels your behaviour?
1. Freaken
Term Used For The 'F' Word
'Shut The Hell Up You Freaken Jerk'
Another example of quality Amherst journalism.
Author and scholar C. S. Lewis on the busybody:
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
Larry, Find the law that is being broken or just move on.
Jed
In response to the "mole"
You mean this law? Copied from above:
"The "plumber" is a Mr. Karl Richardson, and he does not hold a plumbers license from the State of Massachusetts. Perhaps the problem is not a faulty water heater, but a unqualified handyman working on the water heater.It is my understanding that a license is required for any plumbing work performed in this state. Please correct me if i'm wrong."
A few (or possibly more than) of the attacks on Larry are very likely coming from Crouse, Bohonowicz and their gestapo "supporters"...
I would know.
The mole
Hey Jed,
I'll let the Amherst Board of Health, or the Mass Department of Eduction or OSHA figure out the law being broken (it's all the same one)
While licensed or not, what is the law regarding water tempeture ranges?
Safe to say that under 80 is too low.
Swearing at people and calling people names. That's one way to get people to respect your ideas.
Not.
"Safe to say that under 80 is too low."
Translation: "I have no idea what the requirement is so I can't answer your question."
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_water_temperature_range_
is_safe_for_hand_washing&waAn=1
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/
What_water_temperature_
range_is_safe_for_hand_
washing&waAn=1
The answer is that there is no minimum temperature and Larry is going to find it impossible to find one.
He's just making a big deal out of a non-issue.
From the DOE website (you know that would be the 'Massachusetts Department of Education'):
Physical Facility/Bathing and Toilet Facilities.
(a) Equipment and Facilities. The school shall provide adequate numbers of toilet areas for students being served, and shall locate and equip toilet areas so as to facilitate maximum self-help by students. The school shall provide toilet and bathing equipment and facilities in accordance with the following provisions:
1. Water Temperature. The school shall provide both hot and cold running water in sinks, tubs, and showers. For preschool and severely disabled students the water temperature shall be no more than one hundred twenty degrees Fahrenheit and no less than one hundred ten degrees Fahrenheit. The temperature may be controlled through regulation of the boiler or a mixing valve in the faucet.
Still only a portion of what you need. Have you checked any other faucets at WW?
Funny, how with all the really big crisis in the world--global warming,Darfur, Gaza, the economic meltdown, torture--Larry is taking on flags, VM, luke-warm water.
Brilliant!
What's next? Prickly Heat?
No, maybe next will be how anonymous nitwits like posting inflammatory crap without having the balls to sign their name.
Don't say it isn't true though. You are the master of the picayune.
I can't wait for the 300th anniversary of Amherst in 2059 so everyone can look back on the 80 degree water crisis.
Perhaps there will be a special round of kumbaya in your honor.
Luke-warm water? You mean it isn't true? I would hate to post inflamatory crap.
I was under the mistaken impression you were spending your time running in and out of the Wildwood school bathroom with a thermometer. My bad, that must have been some other Larry Kelley.
"Don't say it isn't true though. You are the master of the picayune."
And you are the master of projection.
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