UPDATE: Thursday noon: The Pocket Veto is Complete
Sent: Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:01 am
Subject: regarding Monday's SB agenda
Hi Larry --
I had asked Select Board members to let me know by 9:00 a.m. today if they wanted to include a discussion of the 9/11 commemorative flag policy on Monday's agenda. None did.
Just want to make sure that I keep you informed about this.
Take care.
Stephanie
Sent: Thu, Aug 27, 2009 12:08 pm
Subject: Re: regarding Monday's SB agenda
Hey Stephanie,
Thanks, appreciate the timely update (but not so much the message).
Larry
Her Highness feels the heat
The Republican Reports:
Look I don't give two shits if they fly the flag six days or seven days. And I don't care if we commemorate 9/11 at the fire house or the War Memorial Pool but some people do care and the Select Board would do well to grant the request without too much more talk about when it can be talked about and when it can be schedule to be talked about after that, gumming it to death.
ReplyDeleteAppropriately handled by Ms. O'Keeffe.
ReplyDeleteAlthough Sgt. Bouchard losing his life in Afghanistan is very sad and unfortunate, I don't see the relevance of his death to the 9/11 flags.
Dave
I have often proposed a direct challenge to them:
ReplyDeleteGo out and get a bunch of the standard grave flags and some clear tape.
Tape one to each and every lightpole.
If the town removes the flags, but not all the other posted literature, then they are engaging in content-based censorship and you sue them in US District Court. (In theory the ACLU would be with you, but I wonder...)
Or - and this would involve getting arrested and then suing for malicious prosecution (etc) - you remove the UN flag and run a US Flag up that pole. If they prosecute you, and not the woman who publicly removed what she thought was the Texas flag from the same pole, that is a major suit.
And the next time the feminist or antiAmericans or whomever want to use the town common for some reason, you also sue for content neutrality. Bury them with their own procedures.
No actually Ms. O'Keeffe kind of bungled it (gotta love her original suggestion that it could be taken up at the 9/14 meeting for instance).
ReplyDeleteRemember last year when this came up Gerry Weiss was still SB Chair (she had not yet pulled off her coup d'état.)
And Weiss, feeling the public pressure, came up with the idiotic every-three-year plan.
Since Czar Awad was gone at that point and Aaron Hayden was not yet elected the vote to fly them on one-third of 9/11's was 3-1.
But if the motion had been to fly them EVERY year it would have been 2-2 (because Weiss would have voted No).
And those exact same four were present last night. So if Stephanie were politically astute she would have taken a quick vote on my suggestion and she and Alisa could vote yes and Weiss and Stein would vote No and the motion would have failed.
That way she could never be accused of "voting against the flag."
Now she's put the spotlight/heatlamp on Aaron Hayden because if he does NOT ask for the issue to be on the 8/31 meeting, then that is exactly the same as voting NO, which I don't think he would have done had he been on the board one-year ago.
Of course the other irony is Princess Stephanie used Hayden's November election as an excuse to revote and win the Chair position at a time when it has never been done before (normally always after the spring town election).
And the other irony is Hayden would not have assumed his Select Board position in November if Anne Awad had not resigned on September 1 citing me as a reason (not of course that she had purchased a large expensive home in South Hadley and taken out a legal "declaration of homestead" on it months earlier and where she now resides in obscurity.)
Hmmm...Not exactly sure why my last comment showed up as Anon posting. But obviously that was me spouting all that "inside baseball".
ReplyDeleteLarry K
That's Ed, like his war record. proposing someone else take up the challenge while he's poolside.
ReplyDeleteActually Kevin Joy and I put up a half-dozen flags back in 2005 or 2006 in the same holders the day before 9/11 and Town Manager Barry Del Castilho had them removed.
ReplyDeletePat Church briefly stole the Puerto Rican flag from the pole that normally flies the UN flag because she mistook it for a Texan flag (around the time President Bush was reelected) and she was not arrested.
Are Boushard's Joshua and Jay related?
ReplyDelete"Pat Church briefly stole the Puerto Rican flag from the pole that normally flies the UN flag because she mistook it for a Texan flag (around the time President Bush was reelected) and she was not arrested."
ReplyDeleteThank you for bringing up something completely irrelevant to the discussion.
Ya think?
ReplyDeleteIf Amherst flew a Hawaiian flag on Barack Obama's Inauguration Day from the UN Pole and I took it down, town officials would have had me arrested in a heartbeat.
The subject is flying the flag on 9/11 not stealing flags and whether you should be prosecuted.
ReplyDeleteBTW, try dressing more age appropriate. You look like Opie with gray hair in that video.
Hey come on now Anon Nitwit. My wife got me that shirt in China last year when we picked up Jada.
ReplyDeleteStrangely enough (just to impress Alisa Brewer) I planned to stop at Hastings and buy an Amherst 250'th Anniversary t-shirt ("Amherst: where only the H is silent") and wear it, but ran out of time.
Why don't we fly flags to honor the War of 1812?
ReplyDeleteTo the anonymous cowardly nitwit that posted on 9:49, but then claimed to be the blogger:
ReplyDeleteWith political insight that you have, why do you have so little power to get what you want in this town (which sadly has been taken over by sub-five generationers)? How can you claim to know what Ms. O'Keeffe should have done if she were politically astute, when you are only speculating regarding what she wants as an outcome? Typical nonsense from just another cowardly anonymous nitwit.
If the worst mistake the Chair makes is to get the date of a meeting, and correct herself, she has my vote.
Ms. O'Keeffe has handled this well and with utmost respect for all of our residents.
Dave
Why are you waiting until the last minute to bring this up? You know that the public comment period is not the prelude to a vote. If you were serious about this, instead of grandstanding, this would have been brought up months earlier.
ReplyDeleteCome on Dave, you're starting to sound like that 9/11 conspiracy nut. That really WAS me posting a comment at 9:49 AM. (still have not figured out why it ended up as an Anon post.)
ReplyDeleteAnd the Chair did not get the date of a SB meeting wrong (they actually are meeting on September 14'th because the 7'th is Labor Day--you know one of those days when the flags can fly).
And she only corrected herself about the uselessness of that particular meeting, when I did the math for her.
Nitwit Anon 3:30 PM
The reason I'm not overly concerned with the War of 1812 is that America suffered about 2,300 casualties almost all of them military.
On 9/11 almost all the 2,900 or so American deaths were civilian.
Nitwit Anon 4:04 PM
I always bring this up the second to last meeting before 9/11 (and last year it produced success...sort of).
In every other community in America this would not even warrant discussion time. Only in Amherst!
Is every other community officially flying flags on 9/11?
ReplyDeleteIn 1812 the total US population was less than 8 million. A lot higher proportion of casualties to our total population. Don't belittle it.
ReplyDeleteI really don't care about "every other community". I live in Amherst.
ReplyDeleteThe Governor will order the American flag to half-staff on ALL State public buildings on 9/11, and yes, if I had to guess the vast majority of cities and towns that have "commemorative flags" will fly them as well.
Yeah, Anon 5:18 PM
ReplyDeleteOn December 7'th 1941 our population was also a Hell of a lot less than what it was on 9/11/01 but the percentage of casualties as measured if military or civilian stays the same.
At Pearl Harbor of the 2,400 killed about 98% were military. And I don't "belittle" that in the least.
There are "rules of engagement," and the 9/11 attacks (where 96% of the dead were civilians) broke them all.
I support Mr. Kelley on the flying of the flags on 9/11. I recall a very good speech from him at a recent Town Meeting in which he talked about the vast diversity of people who died in the towers on that day.
ReplyDeleteBut effective advocacy has to be fair. And, when it's not, it tends to exact its own punishment.
Anybody watching could see that Ms. O'Keeffe simply slipped when she mentioned addressing matters on 9/14. And Mr. Kelley politely corrected her. That could have been the end of it.
But he couldn't leave it alone this morning. You can't bully people time after time and then expect them to be with you at the crucial moments. Only teenagers expect to get away with that with the adults around them.
Mr. Kelley puts people like me in a difficult position: we may agree with him on the substance, but his style of argument and advocacy is so dirty that we don't mind watching him lose. It's too bad because he occasionally takes the public interest down with him.
Rich Morse
Yes Mr Morse, unlike your wife, you agreed voted with me on the floor of Town Meeting 5/16/07 on flying the flags.
ReplyDeleteI think the date thing that Princess Stephanie botched is fair game, but what debate experts call "quibbling" (Hey, at least I was polite in the public meeting and this is after all the freakin internet.)
As you can probably tell, I don't give a damn about my "style of argument and advocacy" or wearing "age appropriate" clothing when appearing before public officials.
As Joe Friday would say, "Just the facts."
And the facts in this case-- almost 3,000 innocent Americans slaughtered on a beautiful Tuesday morning simply for being Americans indicates everyone should put aside petty political difference and REMEMBER.
I prefer to think of it this way: Larry Kelley just can't keep himself out of hot water.
ReplyDelete(As usual, Mr. Morse's comments are right on the money.)
And most people consider "hot" to be 120 degrees.
ReplyDeleteAs that great Democratic President once said "If you can't stand the heat..."
Part of the reason that Larry doesn't "give a damn" about his "style of argument and advocacy" is that engaging in the battle is far more important to him than attaining a particular outcome. If he adopted a more fair and reasonable mode of advocacy for his various causes, rather than striving to be purely incendiary, it wouldn't generate all the hoopla and attention; which is, after all, what he's primarily after. He alienates pretty much everyone around him, including potential allies, and then struts around with a big chip on his shoulder. In a way, you've got to feel sorry for him, really. His neediness for attention and acclaim (no matter how he gets it) is pitifully transparent.
ReplyDeleteYeah, and it seems to attract cowardly Anon Nitwits like you to this blog.
ReplyDeleteDo me a favor: go hang out at Princess Stephanie's poor excuse for a blog.
When I say "he occasionally takes down the public interest with him", let me be specific.
ReplyDeleteThe Charter: specifically Vote #1, the 14 vote margin of defeat.
One person who worked very hard for the Charter has recounted for me the experience that was bittersweet for him: the sadness of losing that vote and the simultaneous satisfaction of being in the same room with Mr. Kelley and watching him lose.
This is what bullying does: it turns people who want to agree with you into just a bit of an opponent.
Because the only way to agree is to surrender to it. And most people don't take well to feeling like they gave in to a verbal bludgeoning.
Were there at least 14 people in town who went to the ballot box with the primary interest of not wanting to hand a victory to Mr. Kelley? Shame on them, but it's human nature.
Rich Morse
Yes Mr. Morse, but if you remember I did not have my blog back then (neither did Princess Stephanie have her now abandoned "Town Meeting Experience" blog either).
ReplyDeleteBut I kicked butt with this blog on the 3-year 'Amherst Plan' Override vote in 2007 (saving the taxpayers MILLION$) and was REALLY tempted to bring it up Monday night when Princess Stephanie mentioned something about last years SB 9/11 flag edict being a "multi-year decision."
I'm certain there were 14 folks who went to the ballot box mainly to vote down the Charter simply because I was for it (Anne Awad for one); but I'm also sure there were a couple hundred who went to vote for it because of me.
And yes, if I had my blog I'm also more than certain it would have made up that 14 vote difference many times over (I can't even begin to tell you how many interesting stories the bricks-and-mortar media missed.)
Unfortunately Bryan Harvey was Charter Chair and he wanted to protect Barry Del Castilho so he orchestrated a weak Mayor, Council and Town Manager government.
ReplyDeleteI and Stan Durnakowski (the guy who collected all the signatures both times to get it on the ballot) favored a strong mayor and NO town manager.
Amherst Taxpayers for Responsible Change spokesman Stan Gawle told me he voted No because of the maintaining of the town manager.
Next time we will not allow that mistake.
And a Mayor/Council is a LOT easier to keep an eye on than 240 Town Meeting members and 5 Select Board members--especially now, with the bricks and mortar media in disarray.
I thank Mr. Morse for his insightful comments, and I thank Ms. O'Keeffe for all she does for the town.
ReplyDeleteIs there really a need for the blogger to constantly take cheap shots at people? They are meaningless, and coming from him, not particularly hurtful, but really, what is the point of him saying things like:
"Do me a favor: go hang out at Princess Stephanie's poor excuse for a blog."
Why does he insist on demeaning her with the Princess prefix. And who cares if she has a blog that is not up to this blogger's high standards. Ms. O'Keeffe keeps herself pretty busy doing good for the town. I can forgive her if in fact she has a "poor excuse for a blog."
An interesting contrast to this blogger is Ted Kennedy, a great politician. who died last night. He could sling with the best of them, but when the debate was over, he knew how to work with his opponents to accomplish something for this country. I suspect that the blogger will probably be in the minority that disagrees. To agree would require him saying something respectful about another person.
Wouldn't it be great to see this blogger act in a civil manner (no kumbayah, just civil) and maybe accomplish one of those things on his bucket list.
Dave
Actually I just forwarded town officials (including royal SB Chair Stephanie O'Keeffe)the email heads up from the Governor's office to lower the flag to half-staff to honor Senator Kennedy.
ReplyDeleteI noticed the Big-Y flag down this morning and went thru town center and the main flag was still up.
And if it were up to me, I would also fly the 29 flags downtown in his honor.
Just returned from an all-too-short bike ride and all the town flags including the private majestic Amherst College flag were down to half staff.
ReplyDeleteThe UN flag in front of Town Hall was still at full staff, so now it's higher than the American flag (a breech of flag protocol.)
I attended the Bouchard fundraiser. Didn't recognize a single soul, and the ARHS cafeteria was quite full. I am really glad the organizers of this nice event made this happen. People had obviously put in a lot of work on obtaining raffle prizes, making a banner for people to sign, having an official (really sorry, don't know the name, color guard type presentation of 6 or so military men in formal dress).
ReplyDeleteLarry, you may say that you care more about the outcomes of actual issues than about just drawing attention to yourself, but there's evidence to the contrary. When you really care about the outcome, you can keep your mouth shut.
ReplyDeleteA case in point: a few years back, when ballot approval was needed to pay for for the Plum Brook soccer field rennovation, you were publically silent, despite being in favor of the measure. I can't find it, but I remember a little snippet in the paper stating that you'd deliberately kept quiet because you knew that people would vote against the measure if you endorsed it. Wish I could find it, but I can't.
I find myself often agreeing with you on policy: the town spends money foolishly in many cases, our elected officials ought not to live a couple of towns away, etc. I think Ms O' Keeefe does, too. But constant name-callling ("Princess" for one of the best SB members we have?) publicity stunts like going into an elementary school bathroom against the wishes of the principal (and taking pictures there) and just the gratuitous insults that often appears here don't help the causes you allegedly care about. They just alienate people. Thee are examples, by the way, please spare us further justifications. They are meant illustrate my larger point about your tactics alienating potential allies. If you do reply, I hope you address the larger point about alienating people, if you don't, you've missed my point entirely.
But, I expect you will call me a "nitwit," as you do many times every day. But I'm not, though. Neither are a lot of people who feel the same way about your tactics, despite maybe agreeing with your positions. It's sad.
Actually, I was going to call you an Anon Cowardly Nitwit--which I'm sure I have done many times before (but with Anons it's hard to tell.)
ReplyDeleteANON 1:15 PM
ReplyDeleteYou could add for Mr. K the reason that you are anonymous. He bullies people, and he threatens people. If he knows who you are, he can bully you (verbally and with threats as he has done to people in the past). If you remain anonymous, he's bullying a phantom, which can't be very satisfying.
Maybe if nothing else, we can get him to drop the "princess," "mangler," etc. terms. It is indeed sad that this person, who occasionally has some good ideas, has to resort to name calling to make his point. I note that very, very few people respond in kind. That is, despite ridicule by the blogger, most people remain quite civil, although "cowardly" "nitwits" in the blogger's view.
You and others have raised some great self-improvement points for the blogger to consider, but you know as well as I that he won't. As long as the anons remain civil, they win.
Dave
Hard to figure why someone would remain anonymous with someone who calls people nitwits, cowards, etc. and challenges people to come down to his studio and fight.
ReplyDeleteI'm always amazed that so few people call him any names. That civil behaviour doesn't seem to rub off on him.
Let us remain civil. While I don't believe you can teach an old dog (no, I'm not calling the blogger a dog. it's just an expression) new tricks, you never know.
ReplyDeleteThis is where the blogger calls us cowards, and then tells us to go off into the woods, banging drums, and singing kumbayah. Neither creative, nor effective
Dave
No "Dave",
ReplyDeleteThis is where I tell you I have been in business for almost 28 years and politically active for about the same number of years (the two go hand-in-hand.)
Thus, I know an awful lot of "Dave's" and most of them like/respect me (so I know you are not one of them).
Go start your own blog--it's free. According to you I'm neither "creative nor effective" but somehow I manage to draw your undivided attention (and all the other Anon Cowardly Nitwits)
In other words, there is no chance I will ever learn anything. I will continue to alienate people. Get banned from listserves, building, etc.
ReplyDeleteMust...not...learn...anything. Learning...is...like...kryptonite...to...me...
to be called a nitwit by Mr Kelley is an honor...being that he is the nittiest of all nits
ReplyDeleteat least he doesn't delete comments... and provides some(all) of us a soapbox that seems to get a lot of traffic
face it, the anons have some fun picking on the grand nitster, and that is worth something, ain't it?
Oh bach, you made me laugh at that comment coming from someone who deletes comments and now doesn't allow anonymous posts.
ReplyDeletethe default setting is changed now, thanks for the heads up.
ReplyDeleteanon at will, pineapple
Saying Larry should be reasonable and come to the center is based on an assumption that itself may not be accurate - that there actually *is* a middle in Amherst.
ReplyDeleteAmherst is 25.27 square miles surrounded by reality. There is no middle...
When you have what was said on Sept 10th on one side - that the flag is red with the blood of murdered minorities, etc, etc, then Larry's response is the only rational one. There simply isn't a middle ground.
Who chose the Generation Kill font? Seems a bit inappropriate.
ReplyDelete